Okay. So, I've done Paganism, and I know a little bit about Circles. Pagan Circles are not usually held every week on X day in a building dedicated to that purpose which is opened on that day to the public. When I go to a temple or a Chabad house or a synagogue on Saturday morning literally anyone could be there. When my friend goes to Mass, literally anyone could be there. So the connection when people are davening or praying is straight up and down (through the priest in the case of Catholicism and some other forms of Christianity, but not for other forms, nor for Jews, nor for other people who have these open kinds of religious services).
In liberal churches I think a lot of the huggy talky share-your-story-handholdy stuff is an attempt to introduce some feeling of community into the whole thing, but because anyone CAN show up, it makes me uncomfortable. Not just because I have social anxiety, and not just because my own religious practise tends to be more traditional and less huggy, but because anyone and everyone could be there and I don't know who I am sharing my story with. So even when talking and discussing texts (say Talmud, or Kabbalah) I still don't want to hug the person sitting next to me or give them the kiss of peace.
In a tribal religion (like Judaism, and most pre-Christian pagan religions) everyone who has been born or adopted into the tribe belongs to the tribe, whether they believe in anything or not.
That belief matters is one of the big differences between Christianity (especially Protestant Christianity) and Judaism and also one of the big differences between tribal paganism and Neo-Paganism. That is actually one of the things Neo-Paganism derives from the fact that it is a post-Christian religion and that almost everyone who is a Neo-Pagan is a convert from a nominally Christian or culturally Jewish family who has grown up their whole life long with the belief = religion equation.
Some Jewish people are very confused when you tell them that if you have Christian parents and are converting to Judaism, you're not a Christian until you become a Jew. It's hard for them to grok that even if you're baptised and given a Christian name, you aren't a Christian if you don't believe that Jesus is the Saviour (and of course, if you did, you wouldn't want to convert).
So even if I'm at a synagogue where the rabbi and I share all the same important beliefs, there's no telling what the woman sitting next to me thinks. And that's okay because in a synagogue where we're not actually expected to hold hands, sing protest songs and talk about ourselves in public, as long as she and I do what we came there to do, it's all good.
Anyhow, Jews believe that the world got broken during the process of creation and that our job is to help the Creator fix it. Which is similar to but a little different from the thing where you're envisioning a totally different world that you want to create.
I also think that in a lot of liberal Jewish and Christian congregations the de-emphasis (to the point of subtle hostility and overt discouragement) of mystical practise is not an accident. I think that it has a lot to do with the way they position themselves as being "modern", "liberal", and RATIONAL, and not like the scary crazy fundamentalists or your narrow-minded traditional old-country Orthodox grandparents/cousins/whatever. A lot of hand-holding in very liberal Jewish groups also is meant to make it very very clear that we're not like those people who think men and women shouldn't look at or touch each other while praying. (Which, fine. But I could do without men trying to flirt with me at those times so I don't actually mind the mechitzah as long as women aren't relegated to a place where they can't see what's going on.)
Unfortunately, it has the effect of forcing people who need the mystical practise to feel like they have actually done anything worshipful to make this choice between politics and fellowship and study or mysticism and getting out of your talky brain and the stress release that comes with that, which is, if you have this kind of neurological wiring--and I do think that neurological wiring has a lot to do with it--a TREMENDOUS stress release. If I can get up into that part of my brain and stay there for an hour, I may or may not be tired afterwards, but I feel so much BETTER.
I think that one of the attractions of fundamentalism and Chabad and ultra-orthodoxy and the conservative strains of neo-Chassidism is that they are not afraid of your strong emotions and your mystical experiences.
I find this disheartening not just for my own sake but because people who are overworked, underpaid and chronically stressed are not drawn to cerebral religions where there's a lot of debate and discussion. They need the stress release and they need to be told that they're okay (or that they can be okay without having to work and think and do MORE--the appeal of getting born again over social justice work to working class folks is not accidental).
Sometimes I think that what progressive political parties and religious groups need to do first is lay off the guilt tripping and make things more fun and more ecstatic and more emotionally accessible and EASIER. But now we are spiralling off into a whole different rant. Still, there's a reason Gay Pride WORKS and gets people to come back over and over and over, yet protests turn into riots or ten people come.
no subject
In liberal churches I think a lot of the huggy talky share-your-story-handholdy stuff is an attempt to introduce some feeling of community into the whole thing, but because anyone CAN show up, it makes me uncomfortable. Not just because I have social anxiety, and not just because my own religious practise tends to be more traditional and less huggy, but because anyone and everyone could be there and I don't know who I am sharing my story with. So even when talking and discussing texts (say Talmud, or Kabbalah) I still don't want to hug the person sitting next to me or give them the kiss of peace.
In a tribal religion (like Judaism, and most pre-Christian pagan religions) everyone who has been born or adopted into the tribe belongs to the tribe, whether they believe in anything or not.
That belief matters is one of the big differences between Christianity (especially Protestant Christianity) and Judaism and also one of the big differences between tribal paganism and Neo-Paganism. That is actually one of the things Neo-Paganism derives from the fact that it is a post-Christian religion and that almost everyone who is a Neo-Pagan is a convert from a nominally Christian or culturally Jewish family who has grown up their whole life long with the belief = religion equation.
Some Jewish people are very confused when you tell them that if you have Christian parents and are converting to Judaism, you're not a Christian until you become a Jew. It's hard for them to grok that even if you're baptised and given a Christian name, you aren't a Christian if you don't believe that Jesus is the Saviour (and of course, if you did, you wouldn't want to convert).
So even if I'm at a synagogue where the rabbi and I share all the same important beliefs, there's no telling what the woman sitting next to me thinks. And that's okay because in a synagogue where we're not actually expected to hold hands, sing protest songs and talk about ourselves in public, as long as she and I do what we came there to do, it's all good.
Anyhow, Jews believe that the world got broken during the process of creation and that our job is to help the Creator fix it. Which is similar to but a little different from the thing where you're envisioning a totally different world that you want to create.
I also think that in a lot of liberal Jewish and Christian congregations the de-emphasis (to the point of subtle hostility and overt discouragement) of mystical practise is not an accident. I think that it has a lot to do with the way they position themselves as being "modern", "liberal", and RATIONAL, and not like the scary crazy fundamentalists or your narrow-minded traditional old-country Orthodox grandparents/cousins/whatever. A lot of hand-holding in very liberal Jewish groups also is meant to make it very very clear that we're not like those people who think men and women shouldn't look at or touch each other while praying. (Which, fine. But I could do without men trying to flirt with me at those times so I don't actually mind the mechitzah as long as women aren't relegated to a place where they can't see what's going on.)
Unfortunately, it has the effect of forcing people who need the mystical practise to feel like they have actually done anything worshipful to make this choice between politics and fellowship and study or mysticism and getting out of your talky brain and the stress release that comes with that, which is, if you have this kind of neurological wiring--and I do think that neurological wiring has a lot to do with it--a TREMENDOUS stress release. If I can get up into that part of my brain and stay there for an hour, I may or may not be tired afterwards, but I feel so much BETTER.
I think that one of the attractions of fundamentalism and Chabad and ultra-orthodoxy and the conservative strains of neo-Chassidism is that they are not afraid of your strong emotions and your mystical experiences.
I find this disheartening not just for my own sake but because people who are overworked, underpaid and chronically stressed are not drawn to cerebral religions where there's a lot of debate and discussion. They need the stress release and they need to be told that they're okay (or that they can be okay without having to work and think and do MORE--the appeal of getting born again over social justice work to working class folks is not accidental).
Sometimes I think that what progressive political parties and religious groups need to do first is lay off the guilt tripping and make things more fun and more ecstatic and more emotionally accessible and EASIER. But now we are spiralling off into a whole different rant. Still, there's a reason Gay Pride WORKS and gets people to come back over and over and over, yet protests turn into riots or ten people come.