Okay. An explanation of TGC serious business.

So casrin left TGC recently because one person was trolling the everloving shit out of her and probably some others. There's also the fact that she was receiving a lot of complaints about what sounds like singling out someone she doesn't like and bringing her staff weight to bear on him.

So she eventually left. She took another very active and popular user with her. Ceel flipped out, and this was the result. My SN is Alema Nilim, and you'll note I posted rather infrequently in this thread for the amount of focus I received.

Page one.
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Page six.

These are links to mirrors since after I was banned he immediately decided to delete refs unpersons and got rid of it all before the rational staffers could come back and see what he'd done. After these threads were deleted he posted this one.

I certainly hope you guys aren't quite as numb to irony as Ceel seems to be.

Now, as for whether or not I actually caused casrin or Kass to leave.... Kass is still acting like we're good buddies, so if she's been complaining about me it wouldn't say much about her. Also, casrin just posted a day before this happened (and I have my LJ archived in case that somehow gets deleted) that "IC and OOC, you've become a leader and someone who is sought after / cared about by other writers." Does it look from the evidence I have that I caused it? I don't have reason to believe it, even if it's true.

The alternative is to believe that casrin and Kass reacted to rumors that I'd been sniping behind their backs to make life difficult for them by sniping behind my back and making life difficult for me. I don't know about you, but for two people who until recently treated me as a friend and gave me no reason to do otherwise either... I don't want to believe this is the case. There's a stack of evidence in favor of this, but let's entertain the notion that these two are not as underhanded a pair of backbiting treacherous vipers as that. They certainly haven't acted like that with me before.

So really, I was banned because I told Ceel he was creating the very hostile atmosphere he was decrying. I told Ceel I knew what he was really trying to do, and I didn't stop saying it. Now I'm banned. They're already replacing me at TGU. I've already been invited to several other forums.

You want to hear the real rant, though? The people who're supporting the folk who were banned are mainly the "average" member base. They're getting banned, too. What's the staff doing, you ask? Trying to calm Ceel down, reassure him, and in general get him to have mercy on us poor errant members.

I know how this will end. It will end with nothing changing. This desperate attempt to preserve the status quo is keeping anything from getting better because people are afraid it might get worse.

Worse than people being treated like shit every time Ceel posts. Worse than Ceel interfering with RPs and faction activities. Worse than knowing (not fearing: knowing) that you'll be perma-banned (like I am) if you publically disagree with him.

I have no doubt that this will solve the short-term problem of random folk being banned. But I know with certainty that the staff's not willing to do what it takes to make TGC a healthy place to be. If that's the case, they don't deserve a healthy TGC. They deserve to get exactly what they've gotten.

"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten."

And they deserve it.

Okay. An explanation of TGC serious business.

So casrin left TGC recently because one person was trolling the everloving shit out of her and probably some others. There's also the fact that she was receiving a lot of complaints about what sounds like singling out someone she doesn't like and bringing her staff weight to bear on him.

So she eventually left. She took another very active and popular user with her. Ceel flipped out, and this was the result. My SN is Alema Nilim, and you'll note I posted rather infrequently in this thread for the amount of focus I received.

Page one.
Page two.
Page three.
Page four.
Page five.
Page six.

These are links to mirrors since after I was banned he immediately decided to delete refs unpersons and got rid of it all before the rational staffers could come back and see what he'd done. After these threads were deleted he posted this one.

I certainly hope you guys aren't quite as numb to irony as Ceel seems to be.

Now, as for whether or not I actually caused casrin or Kass to leave.... Kass is still acting like we're good buddies, so if she's been complaining about me it wouldn't say much about her. Also, casrin just posted a day before this happened (and I have my LJ archived in case that somehow gets deleted) that "IC and OOC, you've become a leader and someone who is sought after / cared about by other writers." Does it look from the evidence I have that I caused it? I don't have reason to believe it, even if it's true.

The alternative is to believe that casrin and Kass reacted to rumors that I'd been sniping behind their backs to make life difficult for them by sniping behind my back and making life difficult for me. I don't know about you, but for two people who until recently treated me as a friend and gave me no reason to do otherwise either... I don't want to believe this is the case. There's a stack of evidence in favor of this, but let's entertain the notion that these two are not as underhanded a pair of backbiting treacherous vipers as that. They certainly haven't acted like that with me before.

So really, I was banned because I told Ceel he was creating the very hostile atmosphere he was decrying. I told Ceel I knew what he was really trying to do, and I didn't stop saying it. Now I'm banned. They're already replacing me at TGU. I've already been invited to several other forums.

You want to hear the real rant, though? The people who're supporting the folk who were banned are mainly the "average" member base. They're getting banned, too. What's the staff doing, you ask? Trying to calm Ceel down, reassure him, and in general get him to have mercy on us poor errant members.

I know how this will end. It will end with nothing changing. This desperate attempt to preserve the status quo is keeping anything from getting better because people are afraid it might get worse.

Worse than people being treated like shit every time Ceel posts. Worse than Ceel interfering with RPs and faction activities. Worse than knowing (not fearing: knowing) that you'll be perma-banned (like I am) if you publically disagree with him.

I have no doubt that this will solve the short-term problem of random folk being banned. But I know with certainty that the staff's not willing to do what it takes to make TGC a healthy place to be. If that's the case, they don't deserve a healthy TGC. They deserve to get exactly what they've gotten.

"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten."

And they deserve it.

Okay. An explanation of TGC serious business.

So casrin left TGC recently because one person was trolling the everloving shit out of her and probably some others. There's also the fact that she was receiving a lot of complaints about what sounds like singling out someone she doesn't like and bringing her staff weight to bear on him.

So she eventually left. She took another very active and popular user with her. Ceel flipped out, and this was the result. My SN is Alema Nilim, and you'll note I posted rather infrequently in this thread for the amount of focus I received.

Page one.
Page two.
Page three.
Page four.
Page five.
Page six.

These are links to mirrors since after I was banned he immediately decided to delete refs unpersons and got rid of it all before the rational staffers could come back and see what he'd done. After these threads were deleted he posted this one.

I certainly hope you guys aren't quite as numb to irony as Ceel seems to be.

Now, as for whether or not I actually caused casrin or Kass to leave.... Kass is still acting like we're good buddies, so if she's been complaining about me it wouldn't say much about her. Also, casrin just posted a day before this happened (and I have my LJ archived in case that somehow gets deleted) that "IC and OOC, you've become a leader and someone who is sought after / cared about by other writers." Does it look from the evidence I have that I caused it? I don't have reason to believe it, even if it's true.

The alternative is to believe that casrin and Kass reacted to rumors that I'd been sniping behind their backs to make life difficult for them by sniping behind my back and making life difficult for me. I don't know about you, but for two people who until recently treated me as a friend and gave me no reason to do otherwise either... I don't want to believe this is the case. There's a stack of evidence in favor of this, but let's entertain the notion that these two are not as underhanded a pair of backbiting treacherous vipers as that. They certainly haven't acted like that with me before.

So really, I was banned because I told Ceel he was creating the very hostile atmosphere he was decrying. I told Ceel I knew what he was really trying to do, and I didn't stop saying it. Now I'm banned. They're already replacing me at TGU. I've already been invited to several other forums.

You want to hear the real rant, though? The people who're supporting the folk who were banned are mainly the "average" member base. They're getting banned, too. What's the staff doing, you ask? Trying to calm Ceel down, reassure him, and in general get him to have mercy on us poor errant members.

I know how this will end. It will end with nothing changing. This desperate attempt to preserve the status quo is keeping anything from getting better because people are afraid it might get worse.

Worse than people being treated like shit every time Ceel posts. Worse than Ceel interfering with RPs and faction activities. Worse than knowing (not fearing: knowing) that you'll be perma-banned (like I am) if you publically disagree with him.

I have no doubt that this will solve the short-term problem of random folk being banned. But I know with certainty that the staff's not willing to do what it takes to make TGC a healthy place to be. If that's the case, they don't deserve a healthy TGC. They deserve to get exactly what they've gotten.

"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten."

And they deserve it.

Layer 08: Rumors

"So you want to be hurt too, do you? Do you want your heart to feel like it's been scraped across with a rasp? If you do, don't look away, whatever you do." -Chisa Yomoda (Lain)

Part of what's upsetting me personally (rather than politically) about recent goings-on at TGC is that people who claim to be friends are displaying serious failings in that area. I didn't think about this when I was angry and come to flawed conclusions. I got angry after I thought about it, and the more I think the angrier I get.

Let's start with casrin, since her leaving sparked all this. She was being flamed by at least one user, and received complaints from members on a regular basis. These complaints were (from what I've read and been told) well-founded but occasionally extraordinarily rude and nonproductive. So she left, removing me from her LJ and probably blocking me on AIM as well. This just after posting to my LJ that she considers me a valued member of the community. According to some sources, she has been claiming that I was part of the reason she left, and her behavior (if not her statement on my LJ) seem to confirm this.

Which means that casrin responded to rumors that I was trying to poison the community against her and make her feel unwelcome... by trying to poison the community against me and trying to make me unwelcome. Her own offense at a lack of communication led her to choose the uncommunicative, destructive, and drama-breeding route that she did.

One of her friends left with her. Kass (among other names, including a LJ whose name I do not remember offhand) was by all accounts best friends with casrin and left when she did. This sort of solidarity I can respect. Whether casrin deserved the backlash she got (which by some accounts she did and some she didn't), at least Kass is willing to stand by her friends and refuse to allow them to be abused.

Or is she? The day before she left, I made a statement in the staff forum that an issue she'd raised might not be appropriate in a forum for official staff business. I told her a couple of different reasons why it didn't look good, but also stated that I was sure she didn't mean it that way. I have a copy of this thread even though it's been deleted. In a conversation later she stated that she respected me for voicing an opinion I felt was true and well-founded and for doing it respectfully, but that she still felt betrayed that I'd done so.

We talked intermittently as the drama started to snowball, and she was always friendly and warm with me. Calling me 'hun' and other similar pet names. I got the impression from this that even though I'd hurt her feelings, the fact that she knew why I'd said what I did and that I'd apologized for hurting her meant that perhaps we were still friends. When a thread was started that culminated in Ceel accusing me (in the exalted name of our beloved departed casrin and Kass) of ruining TGC, I had held out hope that she just hadn't seen it. I suspected that she simply didn't care who was left to twist in the wind, but it had seemed plausible to me that she might not realize she was abandoning her friends to get sucked into the mess her departure and casrin's created.

Come to find out she'd been watching the thread. She watched her friends tell Ceel that he was being unreasonable and creating the very hostile atmosphere he claims drove his friends away. She watched us accused of destroying TGC, and she watched us get banned. She didn't say anything. She didn't post, she didn't message us to express sympathy and I didn't hear from my (evidently rather extensive) network that she'd spoken to anyone in our defense.

And she still talks to me like we're friends. She watched me get banned in her name for standing up for members of our community, and has been showing nothing but sweetness to my face. Nothing but sweetness even though she and casrin created a situation where all they had to do was sit on their hands while other people crucified us on their behalf.

Many staffers who run the faction boards expressed their concern, disapproval, even anger and sorrow at the situation. The situation's been especially hard on them because when someone is banned from the TGC main board, the faction boards are required to ban them as well. Despite being staff on all of these forums according to the rules, and therefore able to ban these people himself, Ceel ordered them to do it. In essence, Ceel's position was that these staffers must be the ones to perma-ban their friends and fellow members for reasons they disagreed with.

That's a terrible position to be placed in, and it shows a contemptible lack of consideration for the people Ceel is allegedly depending on to help him run TGC. When staffers are offering heartfelt apologies as they carry out bans like these, something is wrong.

However, it's not merely wrong that the staffers were asked to ban their friends as part of an irrational campaign against TGC's members. It's also wrong that they did it anyway. I mentioned elsewhere that someone I'd previously considered a friend and for whom I had great respect expressed her profound sorrow at this injustice in a thread that I wouldn't get to read because she carried out the ban within an hour of posting it. Lot of mixed messages.

I don't know what to say to these people. I don't know what to think of the things they say to me.

Is it any wonder that I'm doubting whether I can really trust any of them?

Layer 08: Rumors

"So you want to be hurt too, do you? Do you want your heart to feel like it's been scraped across with a rasp? If you do, don't look away, whatever you do." -Chisa Yomoda (Lain)

Part of what's upsetting me personally (rather than politically) about recent goings-on at TGC is that people who claim to be friends are displaying serious failings in that area. I didn't think about this when I was angry and come to flawed conclusions. I got angry after I thought about it, and the more I think the angrier I get.

Let's start with casrin, since her leaving sparked all this. She was being flamed by at least one user, and received complaints from members on a regular basis. These complaints were (from what I've read and been told) well-founded but occasionally extraordinarily rude and nonproductive. So she left, removing me from her LJ and probably blocking me on AIM as well. This just after posting to my LJ that she considers me a valued member of the community. According to some sources, she has been claiming that I was part of the reason she left, and her behavior (if not her statement on my LJ) seem to confirm this.

Which means that casrin responded to rumors that I was trying to poison the community against her and make her feel unwelcome... by trying to poison the community against me and trying to make me unwelcome. Her own offense at a lack of communication led her to choose the uncommunicative, destructive, and drama-breeding route that she did.

One of her friends left with her. Kass (among other names, including a LJ whose name I do not remember offhand) was by all accounts best friends with casrin and left when she did. This sort of solidarity I can respect. Whether casrin deserved the backlash she got (which by some accounts she did and some she didn't), at least Kass is willing to stand by her friends and refuse to allow them to be abused.

Or is she? The day before she left, I made a statement in the staff forum that an issue she'd raised might not be appropriate in a forum for official staff business. I told her a couple of different reasons why it didn't look good, but also stated that I was sure she didn't mean it that way. I have a copy of this thread even though it's been deleted. In a conversation later she stated that she respected me for voicing an opinion I felt was true and well-founded and for doing it respectfully, but that she still felt betrayed that I'd done so.

We talked intermittently as the drama started to snowball, and she was always friendly and warm with me. Calling me 'hun' and other similar pet names. I got the impression from this that even though I'd hurt her feelings, the fact that she knew why I'd said what I did and that I'd apologized for hurting her meant that perhaps we were still friends. When a thread was started that culminated in Ceel accusing me (in the exalted name of our beloved departed casrin and Kass) of ruining TGC, I had held out hope that she just hadn't seen it. I suspected that she simply didn't care who was left to twist in the wind, but it had seemed plausible to me that she might not realize she was abandoning her friends to get sucked into the mess her departure and casrin's created.

Come to find out she'd been watching the thread. She watched her friends tell Ceel that he was being unreasonable and creating the very hostile atmosphere he claims drove his friends away. She watched us accused of destroying TGC, and she watched us get banned. She didn't say anything. She didn't post, she didn't message us to express sympathy and I didn't hear from my (evidently rather extensive) network that she'd spoken to anyone in our defense.

And she still talks to me like we're friends. She watched me get banned in her name for standing up for members of our community, and has been showing nothing but sweetness to my face. Nothing but sweetness even though she and casrin created a situation where all they had to do was sit on their hands while other people crucified us on their behalf.

Many staffers who run the faction boards expressed their concern, disapproval, even anger and sorrow at the situation. The situation's been especially hard on them because when someone is banned from the TGC main board, the faction boards are required to ban them as well. Despite being staff on all of these forums according to the rules, and therefore able to ban these people himself, Ceel ordered them to do it. In essence, Ceel's position was that these staffers must be the ones to perma-ban their friends and fellow members for reasons they disagreed with.

That's a terrible position to be placed in, and it shows a contemptible lack of consideration for the people Ceel is allegedly depending on to help him run TGC. When staffers are offering heartfelt apologies as they carry out bans like these, something is wrong.

However, it's not merely wrong that the staffers were asked to ban their friends as part of an irrational campaign against TGC's members. It's also wrong that they did it anyway. I mentioned elsewhere that someone I'd previously considered a friend and for whom I had great respect expressed her profound sorrow at this injustice in a thread that I wouldn't get to read because she carried out the ban within an hour of posting it. Lot of mixed messages.

I don't know what to say to these people. I don't know what to think of the things they say to me.

Is it any wonder that I'm doubting whether I can really trust any of them?

Layer 08: Rumors

"So you want to be hurt too, do you? Do you want your heart to feel like it's been scraped across with a rasp? If you do, don't look away, whatever you do." -Chisa Yomoda (Lain)

Part of what's upsetting me personally (rather than politically) about recent goings-on at TGC is that people who claim to be friends are displaying serious failings in that area. I didn't think about this when I was angry and come to flawed conclusions. I got angry after I thought about it, and the more I think the angrier I get.

Let's start with casrin, since her leaving sparked all this. She was being flamed by at least one user, and received complaints from members on a regular basis. These complaints were (from what I've read and been told) well-founded but occasionally extraordinarily rude and nonproductive. So she left, removing me from her LJ and probably blocking me on AIM as well. This just after posting to my LJ that she considers me a valued member of the community. According to some sources, she has been claiming that I was part of the reason she left, and her behavior (if not her statement on my LJ) seem to confirm this.

Which means that casrin responded to rumors that I was trying to poison the community against her and make her feel unwelcome... by trying to poison the community against me and trying to make me unwelcome. Her own offense at a lack of communication led her to choose the uncommunicative, destructive, and drama-breeding route that she did.

One of her friends left with her. Kass (among other names, including a LJ whose name I do not remember offhand) was by all accounts best friends with casrin and left when she did. This sort of solidarity I can respect. Whether casrin deserved the backlash she got (which by some accounts she did and some she didn't), at least Kass is willing to stand by her friends and refuse to allow them to be abused.

Or is she? The day before she left, I made a statement in the staff forum that an issue she'd raised might not be appropriate in a forum for official staff business. I told her a couple of different reasons why it didn't look good, but also stated that I was sure she didn't mean it that way. I have a copy of this thread even though it's been deleted. In a conversation later she stated that she respected me for voicing an opinion I felt was true and well-founded and for doing it respectfully, but that she still felt betrayed that I'd done so.

We talked intermittently as the drama started to snowball, and she was always friendly and warm with me. Calling me 'hun' and other similar pet names. I got the impression from this that even though I'd hurt her feelings, the fact that she knew why I'd said what I did and that I'd apologized for hurting her meant that perhaps we were still friends. When a thread was started that culminated in Ceel accusing me (in the exalted name of our beloved departed casrin and Kass) of ruining TGC, I had held out hope that she just hadn't seen it. I suspected that she simply didn't care who was left to twist in the wind, but it had seemed plausible to me that she might not realize she was abandoning her friends to get sucked into the mess her departure and casrin's created.

Come to find out she'd been watching the thread. She watched her friends tell Ceel that he was being unreasonable and creating the very hostile atmosphere he claims drove his friends away. She watched us accused of destroying TGC, and she watched us get banned. She didn't say anything. She didn't post, she didn't message us to express sympathy and I didn't hear from my (evidently rather extensive) network that she'd spoken to anyone in our defense.

And she still talks to me like we're friends. She watched me get banned in her name for standing up for members of our community, and has been showing nothing but sweetness to my face. Nothing but sweetness even though she and casrin created a situation where all they had to do was sit on their hands while other people crucified us on their behalf.

Many staffers who run the faction boards expressed their concern, disapproval, even anger and sorrow at the situation. The situation's been especially hard on them because when someone is banned from the TGC main board, the faction boards are required to ban them as well. Despite being staff on all of these forums according to the rules, and therefore able to ban these people himself, Ceel ordered them to do it. In essence, Ceel's position was that these staffers must be the ones to perma-ban their friends and fellow members for reasons they disagreed with.

That's a terrible position to be placed in, and it shows a contemptible lack of consideration for the people Ceel is allegedly depending on to help him run TGC. When staffers are offering heartfelt apologies as they carry out bans like these, something is wrong.

However, it's not merely wrong that the staffers were asked to ban their friends as part of an irrational campaign against TGC's members. It's also wrong that they did it anyway. I mentioned elsewhere that someone I'd previously considered a friend and for whom I had great respect expressed her profound sorrow at this injustice in a thread that I wouldn't get to read because she carried out the ban within an hour of posting it. Lot of mixed messages.

I don't know what to say to these people. I don't know what to think of the things they say to me.

Is it any wonder that I'm doubting whether I can really trust any of them?

Z-Pack!

On the up-side. I'm almost done with my azithromycin. I feel better than I have in weeks, at least physically. After three weeks, I'd almost forgotten how much it rocks not to have a sinus infection.

So at least on top of everything else I don't feel sick. Trying to count my blessings where that's concerned.

Z-Pack!

On the up-side. I'm almost done with my azithromycin. I feel better than I have in weeks, at least physically. After three weeks, I'd almost forgotten how much it rocks not to have a sinus infection.

So at least on top of everything else I don't feel sick. Trying to count my blessings where that's concerned.

Z-Pack!

On the up-side. I'm almost done with my azithromycin. I feel better than I have in weeks, at least physically. After three weeks, I'd almost forgotten how much it rocks not to have a sinus infection.

So at least on top of everything else I don't feel sick. Trying to count my blessings where that's concerned.