I mean, if you can find a way to tell a devoutly religious person, "You know. If there weren't so many Christians, we would classify your beliefs as a mental illness. In fact, we already institutionalize people who clearly actually believe what most Christians only say they do," in a way that is so polite and gentle that you are immune to the tone argument while doing so, you are magic and need to be doing all the talking for all the rest of us.
That's kind of my point - people are upset about that because, from a non-atheist perspective, it's inherently offensive as hell. It doesn't matter how many layers of indirection you cloak "You're stupid and also crazy" in, it's STILL not polite. It's like saying "Excuse me, but your mother regularly enjoys the coitus of dogs and cattle, beg my pardon." Or, to bring it back to atheism, it's like saying "With the greatest of respect, the only source of morality is religion - any Atheist who seemingly behaves morally is just going through the motions."
And, frankly, the argument "The majority of people through out history are mentally ill" is a bad argument. You can argue that the religious impulse is incorrect, unfounded in evidence, and has a problematic history, but if you argue that the religious impulse is a mental illness, I'm sorry, but you're not arguing in good faith, and you don't have a chance in hell of converting anyone no matter how nicely you say it, because you just said that the normal condition of humanity is a mental disease. It doesn't even matter if you're right, because that dog just won't hunt.
It sucks for atheists (and often for everyone) that they have to coexist with religious persons, impulses, and institutions. It's also a fact, and not one amenable to change.
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chiming
Re: I wish this was true, because it's very well stated.
Date: 2011-03-15 08:16 pm (UTC)From:That's kind of my point - people are upset about that because, from a non-atheist perspective, it's inherently offensive as hell. It doesn't matter how many layers of indirection you cloak "You're stupid and also crazy" in, it's STILL not polite. It's like saying "Excuse me, but your mother regularly enjoys the coitus of dogs and cattle, beg my pardon." Or, to bring it back to atheism, it's like saying "With the greatest of respect, the only source of morality is religion - any Atheist who seemingly behaves morally is just going through the motions."
And, frankly, the argument "The majority of people through out history are mentally ill" is a bad argument. You can argue that the religious impulse is incorrect, unfounded in evidence, and has a problematic history, but if you argue that the religious impulse is a mental illness, I'm sorry, but you're not arguing in good faith, and you don't have a chance in hell of converting anyone no matter how nicely you say it, because you just said that the normal condition of humanity is a mental disease. It doesn't even matter if you're right, because that dog just won't hunt.
It sucks for atheists (and often for everyone) that they have to coexist with religious persons, impulses, and institutions. It's also a fact, and not one amenable to change.